Sat 24 Feb 2007
I’m too ticked to sleep. I brought up to Mr. W earlier that I don’t understand why he’d take all these random chemical diet aid pills and “supplement” stuff that his ex left laying around his house, but it’s so hard for him to listen to ME and not take ephedrine despite how much I explained that it was dangerous for someone with high blood pressure and a history of heart problems in the family, or to take other things I suggest that are good for him, such as glucosamine for all his creaking crackling joints especially since he runs. I said it’s a different thing if she were a nutritionist, or had actual knowledge about these products, but judging by the crap laying around the house that she’d bought, she’d simply bought into all the ineffective and/or dangerous trends. He yelled at me about not understanding why I have to pick a fight with him and feel threatened by an ex-girlfriend of his that doesn’t even live in the same state anymore. I was so pissed off that he said that. He’s back to the same old problem — not hearing what I’m saying but projecting other fights he had with his exes over, apparently, other women and other exes. I told him I would’ve said the same damn thing if his dad were the one who’d bought those pills, but does that mean I must be jealous of his father? He wouldn’t listen and instead got into bed and went to sleep.
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, all women are NOT alike! No, all women are NOT catty! No, not everything is about some fear that I’m gonna lose you to some ex! I’m so upset I’m shaking right now. I hate, HATE when I’m falsely accused of something like this, cuz it means 1) he didn’t hear me or didn’t take me seriously; 2) he can’t see that I’m not like THEM; 3) we’re making no progress in our relationship in getting to know each other; 4) I get no credit for NOT being like his jealous exes. This is like when someone who’s innocent is accused of cheating and they say, “Well shit, I may as well go cheat cuz I’m gonna get blamed for it either way.” WHY do I make the effort to keep the peace between him/us and his exes, then? Why don’t I just have a fuss and have a fit whenever the mother of his children calls, instead of getting along with her, going with him to pick up the kids and then greeting the ex and having a nice warm chat with her? So when he’s got me totally wronged like this, I find myself trying to explain what my issue ACTUALLY is instead of what he’s ACCUSING ME that the issue is (and his reaction to that was to practically call me a liar and then he ignored me), and now it’s so much uglier than it would’ve been if he’d just listened to and stuck to the original real issue. Now, I can’t sleep and I’m too upset to go lay down next to him.
Is there a full moon? Sometimes I feel like the same problem exists here. He doesn’t LISTEN to my inital problem. It always turs into something else. It would take 5 min to deal with the problem yet “can’t I do anything right” and “i don’t know why you are with me, you aren’t happy” always comes into the fight…no matter WHAT it was about. UGH!!!
Hope you two work it out today and he sees the error of his ways.
Now when BAT reads this he’s going to look over from his computer and say “Flat Coke there are two sides to every story”
Well no shit but this is the one I heard and this is the one I can relate to.
I think (for men) because it’s easier to ‘strike’ you with something like a blanket statement than deal with the real issue.
It is true about the ephedrine products, especially when related to cardiac issues… maybe a cardiologist should tell him that?
My only thing was, Why can’t you give my advice the credence that I feel it deserves, since I believe I’ve done enough research and know enough about certain products, instead of taking stuff left around by someone whom I feel didn’t know what was better for you, when I know the stuff is harmful to you and have explained why and how? (Actually, to be more fair, I don’t think she left that stuff for him, she more like bought ’em for herself, so I’m pretty sure she didn’t get him ephedrine in ignorance or to try to kill him.) He said that because I said the word “ex” “like 6 times” that my whole point was clearly an issue with HER. But what am I supposed to say? “Don’t take the stuff that mysteriously appeared in your house because the source of the mystery doesn’t understand what it’s purchasing”?
For Bat: Mr. W’s side would be something like, “I didn’t take the whole giant bottle of ephedrine, it’s still sitting there! And I only started taking her creatine yesterday! And I haven’t been taking the glucosamine, but I did start taking a multivitamin like you suggested and I cut down my fast food and am going to the gym now because of you.”
But I’m upset cuz I told him about why ephedrine is bad (especially for him) since the day he dug the bottle out, and he took it multiple times a day our entire trip in Hawaii when I was with him 24/7 so I could see the frequency that he popped the pills, despite my repeated explanations of WHY he should stop. I don’t know what he’s popping now cuz the bottle is still out and on the counter, he hasn’t tossed it like I’d wanted, so altho he said last nite that he hasn’t taken it lately, that was news to me. And last nite I saw my bottle of glucosamine/MSM/chondroitin (good stuff for joint lubrication and maintenance, especially for runners’ knees) tucked in the waaaaay back of the top of a cabinet above the wall-mounted microwave, and he’s even been complaining about all his joints crackling and popping! Clearly he hasn’t been taking the joint supplements. But he dug out a tub of her creatine and started taking that, despite my explaining to him what it does, that it delays the onset of fatigue during tough workouts so you can work out harder for longer and body builders typically like it, and he’d said that the stuff’s not for him cuz he’s not interested in bulking up.
So that’s his side and my side of the original argument, if he’d kept it to just that instead of accusations that I’m apparently threatened by his ex.
obviously he continues to associate that word with bad feelings…. and he knows that you’re the most intelligent person he’s ever dated.. maybe he’s embarrassed about those that he chose to be with and would rather forget them? I’d feel the same way if everyone I was with was extremely subpar to who I’m with now.
I know that you’d be the same way even if the garbage man left them laying around.. but would you say GARBAGE MAN six times in a conversation? I think you would!!
“A GARBAGE man doesn’t know what ephedrine does to your heart… A GARBAGE MAN didn’t do the research…” so yes, I can see you repeating the name of whomever left that stuff lying around, simply to get it across that *that* person is clearly not educated on the subject. So while you’re making a statement, he’s becoming offended and is only narrowing in on one word.. “ex”.
hey there are 2 peeps currently frolicking in cindyland right now… I think you’re one of them! I must be the other.
Jordan, as always, I appreciate all the compliments woven into your constructive comments.
So how COULD I have said it differently to not push the “ex” button and accidentally create a diversionary collateral damage?
Yup, it’s you and me, sister!
ok well.. since you *already* know that bringing up an ex shakes his inner being, you might want to refrain from saying the word more than once a day (your limit). I’m not sure he would have reacted the same way if you had said “that garbage man” 6 or even 20 times.. and because his other exes were not even on the same level you are, it just reminds him that he used to be with them. He KNOWS you’re the best thing that’s ever happened to him relationship-wise and I’m sure he doesn’t want to look back.
He probably doesn’t care who left it at his house, he’s just reaching for something to help him physically and not associating it with *who* left it.
I guess it might have turned out different in your view, in reading your response to Bat had he done something differently and he thinks it would have been different if YOU hadn’t said ex six times, so in his brain thinking this is a jealousy issue… at least you left it on his counter. I probably would have tossed it in the garbage myself.
Nice restraint girl!
ps.. since you’ve been dating for 1 1/2 years.. that stuff is older than that.. is it still any good??
Ya know, since “ex” isn’t a trigger word with me, it really didn’t occur to me till this fight that it’s a trigger word for him (at least it is coming from someone he’s currently dating). And I do know that he’s had huge fights with currents about his exes before, cuz of the times in the past when he’d again done the irrelevant argument thing and accused me of being “just like them, all you women are the same, all you women have a problem with my exes, I don’t get it!” I remember that during that fight, it took me a moment to understand what he was talking about cuz where he accused my head of being was NOT where it was. I think he underestimates the amount of trust I have for him and the strength of my believe that, like you said Jordan, “he doesn’t want to look back.” Not that he doesn’t want to look back, but that he doesn’t care to BE back. So for him to keep saying I’m insecure about that blows my mind and blows me up. But I can do that, I can avoid the button word. I’m creative with language.
I also agree that he doesn’t care who left it at his house. Apparently I don’t, either, or I would’ve said something every time I saw it or thrown it away. Another great thing about him is that he’s the face-the-music guy. Even if he knows I totally disapprove of his popping ephedrine, he still does it in front of me or tells me he did it, like he told me he took Creatine, instead of doing it behind my back and lying to me about it. Cuz the 2nd way would destroy my trust for him, whereas the first way, the way he does it, increases my trust for him and keeps the dispute simple. It’s about supplements, not lies.
The expiration date occurred to me, too. It made me feel somewhat better that the stuff may have lost efficacy. The expiration on the creatine says 12/05, but he said he still felt more energy and was able to pump more iron, so either that stuff is still working, or his imagination is.
About not tossing his stuff away, I don’t typically step past my bounds into other people’s private territory, i.e. it’s his responsibility to throw his own stuff away, I’d only request that he do it after explaining WHY I feel that way, and I’ve only thrown his stuff (and anyone’s stuff) away if he (they) told me to go ahead and do it.
PS – I don’t even say “ex” once a day. Couple times a month, max. Cuz I don’t like to bring up his exes, either. If I’m talking about his kids’ mom (whom I respect and get along with), I refer to her by her first name or sometimes I call her “mom” in reference to the kids. She’s not the ex who left the junk at his house, his last live-in ex, the one he calls “psycho ex” did it. Apparently nobody liked that ex, not his friends, his kids, or the kids’ mom.
PPS – the side of his argument that I presented for Bat isn’t where I *think* he’d stand, it’s actually stuff he said last nite the limited amount of time that he DID address the actual issue, before he dismissed the entire issue as an “ex jealousy” fight.
I sure missed out on a conversation this morning, fighting my own issues.
That’s okay…it’s that time difference thing. 🙂 Check your email.
Maybe it’s all that stuff that made his tummy sick last night.
Flat Coke – My most recent ex said that all the time . . . “can’t I do anything right” and “i don’t know why you are with me, you aren’t happy” blah, blah, blah. Wow, I am not alone! It always amazes me that someone on this blog is going through something similar as I am. Even though my ex and I aren’t “together” (we still live together, tho) I bought books on couple skills and communication that has helped out a lot.
Cindy – Lisa takes ephedrine. What is it? She says it’s like caffeine without the “coming down” effects of it.
Vanessa – I don’t think he took supplements yesterday, since we didn’t go work out. But I don’t linger around him to see what he puts in his mouth all day long, and I don’t check the bottles.
Ephedrine is a chemical stimulant that is purported to raise one’s metabolism for a few hours. That’s why it was used as the active ingredient in certain “fat burn” over-the-counter weight loss pills. Since it’s been out on the market, there have been many deaths related to ephedrine due to ephedrine’s effects on the blood vessels and heart (i.e. causing stroke and/or heart attacks), and the supplements containing ephedrine were recalled and made illegal to be sold by the FDA. Common less serious side effects of ephedrine include jitteryness, nervousness, shortness of breath, hyperactivity, inability to focus or concentrate. That and its seemingly common FAILURE to get most people to lose weight makes it a useless and dangerous product.
Cindy – Now that I think about it Chance has taken creatine, too. How is that bad for you? I know they recommmend that you drink lots of water w/ it becasue it can be harsh on the kidneys, which Chance does. Is there anything else he should be aware of?
Creatine isn’t “bad for you” the way that ephedrine is potentially bad for people. It’s supposed to help your body gain more muscle because after it metabolizes in the liver, it’s supposed to help carry energy to the muscles, which makes you less burned out as you work out cuz the muscles don’t fatigue as easily (or at least it doesn’t THINK it’s fatiguing as easily).
Like ephedrine, it was another “hype drug” on the market. It was all the rage when it came out cuz of its claims. And it has also died down in hype as certain things were discovered about it. Just like the side effect that Chance is fighting by drinking water, for example. Cuz it strains your kidneys and liver to metabolize this stuff. Also, it didn’t work for most people since their muscles had a water bloat from the creatine instead of a true muscle gain, and that went away in a few days. I’m not sure of the science behind what happens, but I understand it’s similar to the vitamin E hype, i.e. the claim is that Vitamin E creams are great for your skin, but the truth is that the E molecules are way too big to be absorbed by your skin so it just sits on the surface. Like ephedrine, the effectivness of the stuff does not outweigh its side effects, which are muscle bloating, cramps, diarrhea, dehydration, headaches, and kidney and liver problems as a complication.
Maybe Chance has some new Creatine formula that is better than the old one, since Creatine was never outlawed like ephedrine?
I just re-read the above and I should add that I’m just referring to creatine supplements you ingest, I’m not referring to the creatine that your body naturally makes. The question on the market is whether ingested creatine is able to be delivered to your muscles correctly to perform what we want it to do, without taking other organs with it as collateral damage. Because in theory, your body’s own creatine production does all that stuff, supply energy, build muscle fibers, etc.
Good thing creatine isn’t bad for you the way ephedrine is. Is there a difference between ephedrine & ephedra? Now looking back I think Lisa takes ephedra. Anywho, I know it’s not good for you and I told her, but she didn’t listen.
Dude, if they listened I wouldn’t have been writing this blog post! Ephedrine and ephedra are at least derived from the same substance, if they’re not identical to each other. One might be a drug name and the other is the substance name. Not sure.
Ephedrine – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedrine
Ephedra –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
Ephedrine, while different than Ephedra, is not legal as a dietary supplement, but is legal for other various medical conditions.
Huh. Well lookit that. I was right!